Legal versus Medical Education and some blatant 'crowdsourcing'

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Sunday, May 27, 2012

Legal versus Medical Education and some blatant 'crowdsourcing'

In many posts on the state of legal education and the legal profession (on this blog and others) I've seen repeated references to medical education. While I imagine that there exist certain "apples and oranges" aspects to this comparison, it is intriguing. However, I am going to state something that I think might apply to a lot of people - that is, while I have a vague notion of what occurs in medical education (from TV and movies), I feel that I don't really know enough about it to make proper comparisons to legal education (something on which I have experience from both sides of the podium).

Therefore, my purpose here is to blatently 'crowdsource' this information. I have a few questions (ok, a lot of questions) posted below for folks who have experiences with medical education (preferably first-hand, but second-hand is ok too). In the best case scenario we might get some JD/MDs to weigh in on this matter.

If there is any interest, I'd be happy to share my comparative experiences as a new lawyer vs. political science PhD grad (and perhaps fellow guest prawfs blogger Bob Howard can chime in on this)? - although there may not be a great market for that discussion? ;-)

Jeff

1) How difficult is it to get into medical school? (gpa, % test scores, etc.)

2) How much does it cost to go to medical school? (per yer tuition for private/public; how many years do you pay full tuition, etc.)

3) Um, what happens in class? 1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year, etc.? How are you tested/graded? Is it very competitive (e.g. backbiting) or is it 'everyone's a winner'?

4) What are faculty teaching loads? How are they evaluated for rank/tenure (research; teaching evaluations) ? Are rank and tenure the same as in law and/or other fields (e.g. assistant, associate, full)? How are faculty recruited? What is faculty worklife like? Do they make significantly less than non-faculty doctors?

5) How important are grades for medical students in getting jobs? Is there a significant split (as there seems to be in law) between the salaries for the top 15% of the class (or top 15 law school) and the rest? What else matters?

6) How much do doctors make after they begin private practice? Five years out? Ten years out? Is there a large gap between pay for rural vs. urban areas?? (Related to question #3 please discuss salaries during the residency years - this question is about after all of that)

7) How mobile are medical degrees/licenses? How difficult is it to start a practice in another state?

8) How hard is it to get a job as a doctor as a new graduate?

?

Posted by Dingo_Pug on May 27, 2012 at 04:54 PM | Permalink

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Comments

Goodness, I set out to write an answer, but these would take me like 45 minutes or so to complete. Respondent burden is way too high!

I'd like to help, but can you trim it down to 4-5 questions (and no compound questions, please!) you'd most like to get some answers to?

(I am an attorney and a faculty member in a medical school).

Posted by: Daniel S. Goldberg | May 27, 2012 6:05:21 PM

I think that Qs 3,4, and 6 (primary questions) would probably be the most helpful - sorry for extended Qs ... once I get going ...

Posted by: Jeff Yates | May 27, 2012 6:34:11 PM

There is a ton of information available on the Association of American Medical Colleges website:
https://www.aamc.org/students/considering/gettingin/

Posted by: Jeff Lipshaw | May 27, 2012 7:00:28 PM

I know a couple of things Med and Law Schools have in common: they do not require of entering students much competency in STEM and, in the 3-4 years they pretend to teach the student, they do nothing to remedy the situation. Surprisingly, the English Language skills of the students do not seem to be that much better.

The obfuscating prose of lawyers is legendary, but try reading anything a doc or nurse writes, whether in the NYT or in a professional journal, and you will see numerous instances of "at risk for [some disease]" where "at risk of [some disease]" would be the proper form. These are folks who are missing some serious processing between ear and tongue.

It is disastrous for this country that so many of POTUS, COTUS and SCOTUS are drawn from the miserable pool of law-school grads, most of whom have taken undergrad degrees in mickey-mouse majors like History, Philosophy, English and International Affairs. That accounts for the fact that only Breyer of 9 on SCOTUS, only some 8 of 535 in COTUS, and nobody since Carter as POTUS has shown any sophistication when it comes to STEM.

Posted by: Jimbino | May 27, 2012 7:37:48 PM

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